Ragdoll Cat Forums

Hi,

I received this email today and I am sure dozens of other breeders have as well. I find this so upsetting as sadly she will probably find someone to sell her an unaltered pet and she will breed and sell with no clue what she is doing. We need to preserve the standards and well being of this wonderful breed.

Here is the content (not sure if she used her real name)
I am interested in your available seal mitten girl. How much would her price be with breeding rights. I don't plan on opening a cattery, but my mother has a ragdoll also and we might like to have a litter or two prior to having them neutered if the cats are fond of each other.

Thank you for your time,
B P

Usually these folks, if they are honest about their plans in the first place, just do not understand about breeding cats. As a matter of fact, my impression is that this kind of approach is not at all unusual in dog breeding and that stimulates some requests like this. Perhaps someone with experience with breeding practices in dogs can enlighten us.

Sure, same thing happens with dogs, that's why "rescue" exists. Hopefully all decent cat and dog breeders like Gail will have the same disgusted reaction.

(08-04-2010 08:07 AM)JanH Wrote: [ -> ]Usually these folks, if they are honest about their plans in the first place, just do not understand about breeding cats. As a matter of fact, my impression is that this kind of approach is not at all unusual in dog breeding and that stimulates some requests like this. Perhaps someone with experience with breeding practices in dogs can enlighten us.

No. I mean whether or not it is much more common and accepted to breed AKC dogs for just one or two litters to produce breed worthy dogs even though there are no plans to create a long lasting kennel or litters every year. I understand the pecking order among established kennels and the less committed breeding, but my impression is that many kennels also support their dogs being bred in a less "permanent" dog breeding environment and it is not unusual for a single bitch to be bred by a person using stud service only about every five years or so with the purpose of only producing the next generation for that person.

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Curt, I would rather be comparable to Spock than Chicken Little. ; )

JanH wrote:
RE: She Just Wants a Few Litters of Kittens!!!
No. I mean whether or not it is much more common and accepted to breed AKC dogs for just one or two litters to produce breed worthy dogs even though there are no plans to create a long lasting kennel or litters every year. I understand the pecking order among established kennels and the less committed breeding, but my impression is that many kennels also support their dogs being bred in a less "permanent" dog breeding environment and it is not unusual for a single bitch to be bred by a person using stud service only about every five years or so with the purpose of only producing the next generation for that person.

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Best,
JanH

It's been my experience (having grown up in a "show" home) that most GOOD breeders do exactly as you say, they only breed one to two litters under their kennel designate over the course of a few years with dogs that are proven "titled front and back", not soley for physical conformation but for temperament and health. They go to much expense to ensure that they are producing dogs that will enhance the standard and therefore would be loathe, oftimes horrified if a dog of their breeding was used like the kitten being requested in the instance above, by a back yard breeder to churn out a couple of litters for any reason but to further the breed.
Specific "Breed" rescue is a modern day phenomenon, when I was growing up, beginning as a junior handler at the age of 11, it was rare to see "purebreds" in need of placement. Mills and bybs changed that, but NO decent dog breeder that I know would ever espouse selling their prodgeny with a kennel name they are proud of to anyone that asks for breeding rights cuz granny has the same breed and they want to mate them.

The person is requesting breeding rights from a reputable cattery. This does not seem to me to be someone who wants to be a BYB, but just someone who does not understand about cat breeding and the level of commitment it takes. (A cattery cannot plan on an approach like you describe with dogs. Cats not bred for too long are at health risk and whole male cats can become problematic with too few queens, which may be as many as six. Dog breeders seem often to have very few dogs and widely spaced litters.)

JanH WROTE:
RE: She Just Wants a Few Litters of Kittens!!!
The person is requesting breeding rights from a reputable cattery. This does not seem to me to be someone who wants to be a BYB, but just someone who does not understand about cat breeding and the level of commitment it takes. (A cattery cannot plan on an approach like you describe with dogs. Cats not bred for too long are at health risk and whole male cats can become problematic with too few queens, which may be as many as six. Dog breeders seem often to have very few dogs and widely spaced litters.)

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Best,JanH

I don't plan on opening a cattery, but my mother has a ragdoll also and we might like to have a litter or two prior to having them neutered if the cats are fond of each other.

As a breeder, I would think that you would find it problematic that without the knowledge and committment, ie/ having the appropriate number of queens etc. just anyone should consider breeding. (which is my definition of a byb). I think Gail was right in her reaction to this request and I would think that many questions should be asked of this (likely well meaning but uneducated) owner.
In the dog world, the vast majority of dogs have already been shown to championship and have matured so that HD testing can be done (it's not enough to know that the parents don't throw it, each individual need be tested) so yes, it takes longer before designating a dog appropriate for breeding. However, whom a breeder chooses to sell breeding rights to should be based in the same thing in both the dog and cat fancy... the betterment of the breed by breeding to standard. It seems to me that "being fond of each other" is not the optimal way of selecting two cats to breed. Simply requesting breeding rights from a reputable cattery shouldn't really be the hallmark of who is appropriate to breed. Why would you trust your cattery name with a novice who just wants to put her cat together with her mom's cat?
Mind you, I am very new to the world of ragdolls and indeed cats, so if there is something I'm missing here, I'm sure you'll enlighten me

What I find disturbing is that her mom has a ragdoll (apparently unaltered) since they want a few litters if they are compatible.

(08-04-2010 09:47 AM)dextersmom Wrote: [ -> ]As a breeder, I would think that you would find it problematic that without the knowledge and committment, ie/ having the appropriate number of queens etc. just anyone should consider breeding.

What in the world are you talking about? Such people have zero chance of getting a cat to breed from us because we early alter all pets. And, yes, anyone that wants a breeding cat has to meet our standards to have one.

Those are not the issues. The issue is how do you respond to such people. I try to take the time to write back explaining what it takes to breed cats, how to go about it in the right way, the time and emotional burdens, the expense, the space needed, etc. Otherwise these folks may just decide to breed a shelter cat to mom's Ragdoll (if she really has a Ragdoll).

As far as other breeders, my advice to them is not to have to be warned they are out there, but rather to early alter and not worry about someone breeding a pet Ragdoll. The ones who do as this person did and ask for breeding rights are easy as long as they continue to do that. The problem is for breeders who do not early alter or for breeders who can be convinced to provide a whole pet kitten because "my vet says it is not safe to alter before six months of age."

In many cases, folks like this and folks that want to have a litter so the children will see the miracle of birth can be educated to give up the idea. (Few parents who have that thought seem to have considered that they might end up teaching their children the tragedy of death.)