I learned that little Phoenix had an accident and had to have his lower baby canine tooth pulled.
He was under a recliner chairs foot rest when an adult in the home released it to go down, and it hit Phoenix....the person had NO idea Phoenix was under the chair. I feel quite sick and worried about this......considering he is so tiny. The breeder tells me the vet had to pull that baby tooth and no other injuries were inflicted. I have seen cats with a lower snaggle canine tooth & just wondered if this could happen with Phoenix now?
I wonder if his adult tooth will come in normally with the baby tooth gone? The pricing stays the same.....there is no discount because of this accident.
Oh boy, that happened and I'm still waiting for weeks now, with only about 2 weeks or so left til the adoption date, and do not know if his parents have the HCM DNA genetic defect. This is so unsettling.
I do know I probably should not have signed that contract to adopt Phoenix without the HCM knowledge.....but I was so confident in the breeder & adored the looks of Phoenix.
Am I the only one on this forum that proceeded in an adoption without the HCM testing results being confirmed or guaranteed?
NO - you are not the only one on this forum to purchase a cat without knowing the HCM status. Many people don't even know to ask about it unless they have thoroughly researched ragdoll cats. I didn't even know about HCM until I joined a ragdoll cat forum. My girls have not been tested and I constantly think about doing it. It's tough being in your position to know what to do, especially since you already feel as if you have bonded with Phoenix and waited so long.
Teresa.....I really appreciate your post. It does help to know I'm not alone regarding the HCM issue. You're right about bonding with little Phoenix. I think I will tell the breeder if the testing results are still not in by the adoption date, I want a clause entered into my contract to protect me in the event the worst happened with this genetic disease. I think she will accept that.
What's been hard is this wait on not knowing. Each day I think.....wow it won't be long and I'll have Phoenix home! And then my next thought is......or will I?
A contract provision is not a remedy. It is a promise of a remedy. If this breeder wanted results, she could have sent new tests to another lab and gotten THOSE by the time the kittens are ready to go home. She could have done the same by testing just your kitten. (And she failed to get the results before breeding the cats.) If she even has submitted samples, she seems to be just kicking the can down the road with you.
These "it's in the mail" responses raise my level of concern. If you had a sample submitted for your kitten to Dr. Meurs NOW with the results emailed to you, then the delay in picking up the kitten would not be too drastic. You would not control sample collection, which is a concern in these circumstances, but you are ahead of where you would be otherwise.
Like Teresa we didn't even know about HCM till after we got our boys. Luckily our breeder was reputable and already had her breeding cats tested, so we didn't have to worry about it after all! What I'm worried about is that recliner chair... I feel like the breeder should know that they are dangerous for small animals and really shouldn't be in use (or at least have the reclining mechanism taken out). Its understandable that kittens will get into places - we've had to tiptoe around our little Guinevere at times - but a recliner is just asking for trouble. I hope this is just a hitch in the road and Phoenix will come to you happy and healthy.
(05-08-2010 08:31 AM)JanH Wrote: [ -> ]A contract provision is not a remedy. It is a promise of a remedy. If this breeder wanted results, she could have sent new tests to another lab and gotten THOSE by the time the kittens are ready to go home. She could have done the same by testing just your kitten. (And she failed to get the results before breeding the cats.) If she even has submitted samples, she seems to be just kicking the can down the road with you.
These "it's in the mail" responses raise my level of concern. If you had a sample submitted for your kitten to Dr. Meurs NOW with the results emailed to you, then the delay in picking up the kitten would not be too drastic. You would not control sample collection, which is a concern in these circumstances, but you are ahead of where you would be otherwise.
Thanks Jan. As far as the contract provision, I plan to write a remedy in there protecting my costs in the event this should happen to Phoenix. I will ask for my money back, or a replacement kitten of my choice from her breeders that have been tested.....or maybe just my money back, because her other breeders are much larger than Phoenix's parents. Just awful to even think of this happening, considering this whole adoption process started out so perfect.
Okay, I will email her and ask if that could be done with Dr. Meurs NOW......doing something proactive and being ahead of the game as you said. Kicking the can down the road is the depiction I have had in my mind for weeks now, and each day I feel more leery and uneasy. Good point! If you don't mind me asking/putting you out like this, what is the email or mail address/contact point for Dr. Meurs in case the breeder doesn't know? Otherwise I will research this to see if I can locate it.
I do hope she sent those tests in.......only she knows for sure. I am a cautious person by nature, and sometimes do wonder if I'm taking this HCM issue too far, worrying needlessly about it. But considering the percentage you mentioned.....30% testing positive for this genetic defect, I think I am doing the smart thing.
I can't thank you enough for this idea on the testing....being ahead of the game!
(05-08-2010 08:40 AM)CandyKiss Wrote: [ -> ]Like Teresa we didn't even know about HCM till after we got our boys. Luckily our breeder was reputable and already had her breeding cats tested, so we didn't have to worry about it after all! What I'm worried about is that recliner chair... I feel like the breeder should know that they are dangerous for small animals and really shouldn't be in use (or at least have the reclining mechanism taken out). Its understandable that kittens will get into places - we've had to tiptoe around our little Guinevere at times - but a recliner is just asking for trouble. I hope this is just a hitch in the road and Phoenix will come to you happy and healthy.
Thanks Jo! I appreciate your insight. So glad it all worked out with Merlin and Lancelot and the HCM issue. Yes, all I could think was it must have been a hard hit for Phoenix to lose a tooth and I hope his jaw and facial bone structure is okay. I received pics after it happened and the only noticeable difference in him is slight bruising around his sweet little mouth. Some of those recliner foot rests go down hard!! I shudder even thinking about it and how tramatizing it must have been for the little guy. The breeder said Phoenix was a trooper at the vets.
I hope so too.....just a hitch in the road (good phrase by the way).
Did you speak with the vet directly about your kitten? I would insist on it. It makes me uneasy that a tiny little kitten could get hit by a recliner necessitating a tooth extraction but that there be no other injury. Even if this is true, the personality of the kitten will be affected at least somewhat.
It also bothers me as it sounds like the breeder is trying to hold you to contract for a kitten that the breeder subsequently allowed to be injured. That's not reasonable.
I also would be emotionally attached to Phoexnix, sight unseen even. But your kitten is a 15-20 year commitment. It's important that you go into it with confidence.
Don't pick up the kitten. Wait to talk to the Vet and also get the HCM test results. Then make your decision. If you decide against and the breeder insists on holding you to the contract then it may be better to go to small claims court. You could file if you paid a deposit you want back or the breeder could file against you to try to enforce the contract. Unless there is some kind of wording in the contract that you agree to accept the kitten under any conditions, with the recliner accident, any judge would rule in your favor. The condition of the kitten you contracted for is not the kitten being delivered.
If you pick up the kitten and then find out something is wrong - then you've consumated the contract. You will also further bond with the kitten making it much more difficult for you.
It's really a shame when it gets to this level - I hope it doesn't. It will all depend on the breeder and their ethics. Their only objective should be in the best interest of the kitten. Which includes making sure it's new mom is happy and confident in their purchase. If this isn't happening, then go somewhere else. Having a lifetime relationship with the breeder for questions/concerns/advice is a valuable benefit not to be overlooked.
The breeder should know about the labs. Dr. Meurs is at
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/deptsVCGL/test.aspx
If the breeder cannot get a blood sample drawn by her vet or wants to wait for a swab kit from Dr. Meurs to take the sample rather than getting a swab from her vet, then she can collect samples on q-tips herself and send then to UC Davis' lab. Their web site is
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/cat/HCM.php
As for the remedy, specifying it also does not get it for you. It is only a promise to give that remedy. That means you have to rely on the breeder to perform if the problem arises. It is not that easy to enforce such provisions in the event of default, particularly if there is distance between you and the breeder. The best protection is choosing with whom you deal.
(05-08-2010 09:47 AM)Laura Wrote: [ -> ]Did you speak with the vet directly about your kitten? I would insist on it. It makes me uneasy that a tiny little kitten could get hit by a recliner necessitating a tooth extraction but that there be no other injury. Even if this is true, the personality of the kitten will be affected at least somewhat.
It also bothers me as it sounds like the breeder is trying to hold you to contract for a kitten that the breeder subsequently allowed to be injured. That's not reasonable.
I also would be emotionally attached to Phoexnix, sight unseen even. But your kitten is a 15-20 year commitment. It's important that you go into it with confidence.
Don't pick up the kitten. Wait to talk to the Vet and also get the HCM test results. Then make your decision. If you decide against and the breeder insists on holding you to the contract then it may be better to go to small claims court. You could file if you paid a deposit you want back or the breeder could file against you to try to enforce the contract. Unless there is some kind of wording in the contract that you agree to accept the kitten under any conditions, with the recliner accident, any judge would rule in your favor. The condition of the kitten you contracted for is not the kitten being delivered.
If you pick up the kitten and then find out something is wrong - then you've consumated the contract. You will also further bond with the kitten making it much more difficult for you.
It's really a shame when it gets to this level - I hope it doesn't. It will all depend on the breeder and their ethics. Their only objective should be in the best interest of the kitten. Which includes making sure it's new mom is happy and confident in their purchase. If this isn't happening, then go somewhere else. Having a lifetime relationship with the breeder for questions/concerns/advice is a valuable benefit not to be overlooked.
Thanks Laura.....much appreciated! No, I didn't speak to the vet, but I should do that. I think the foot rest hit the top of his head and then his lower fang/canine tooth was injured and then pulled. Seems strange it was just a tooth....I get what you're saying about feeling uneasy....me too. Good point on the personality issues.....will such a tramatic accident cause a change in his personality? I've thought and thought about this, and just don't know?
Okay.....I too wondered about holding me to a contract after his injury, but I have not yet asked to get out of it because I do want Phoenix very much. But yes, this is a long term commitment and one must proceed wisely. You make a valid statement, in that the kitten I contracted for is not the kitten I'm getting. I hope to not have to go the small claims court.
So true!! Bottom line is one does need to enter into a contract and a long term commitment like this with confidence, and in these last few weeks and now with this injury, I've got little left.
I'm almost embarrassed to add this latest news, but I discovered I will NOT be getting a Pedigree with Phoenix either. The breeder said I could get one on my own.....she would give me the papers to file it. Of course I have no clue how to do this. She only gives Pedigrees out for a kitten breeder sale. A pedigree really is not a huge concern of mine though, but I've noticed this paper being discussed on the board frequently so thought I'd admit to this as well.
The pedigree is not an issue. It really is just a matter of filing the paperwork along with a small fee. If it's to be a pet and not a breeder, I see no reason to bother with having it and only did it for one of my two Ragdolls. That was just out of curiosity to see what it was all about. Now, I wouldn't bother with it.