Many months ago, silver was a topic of discussion among breeders. I assume Mindy put this up as a private reference for breeders in understanding it as part of that discussion. I know of no other reason for it nor of any effort to vote on adding silver. This page does not seem to be linked from the rest of the club web site and that would be consistent with my memory of how it was used. There has been no discussion for a long time that I know about and there seemed to be nobody wanting to pursue it.
Why is it a topic worth your questions?
(03-02-2010 01:22 PM)JanH Wrote: [ -> ]Why is it a topic worth your questions?
People may want to know if the color gene could exist in the genepool? (and it does.) People may also want to know how and where and what breed resources (or pedigrees) contributed to this unaccepted color.Once genetic testing of this color becomes available (near future) how this could impact registrations of cats in other more traditionaly based Cat Associations.
It was a lengthy topic of discussion on one of the old Ragdoll Boards a number of years ago.I believe it was one the longest threads and discussions that existed on ANY non-restricted Ragdoll Forum.
I do not know if it exists or not and do not care much where it came from if it does. The only issue for me is whether or not to accept it or not and whether to breed it out if found.
I believe VGL can test for the Inhibitor gene now.
You seem to be rubbing your hands together with glee at the prospect that it might cause someone else some problem. Sad commentary.
(03-02-2010 02:33 PM)JanH Wrote: [ -> ]You seem to be rubbing your hands together with glee at the prospect that it might cause someone else some problem. Sad commentary.
Any and all sad commentaries or resultant problems need to be directed squarely at the USA Ragdoll Breed Groups which knowingly and unanimously accepted falsified pedigree documents into the Breed Genepool
What? I do not recall doing that. ; ) So, at least we know it was not unanimous. (Pedigrees are not in the gene pool. If you mean your trashy mink genes, it is a pity perhaps, but why are you not worried about those same nasty genes which are supposedly an even greater percentage of the genes in the Ragamuffin breed?)
(03-02-2010 06:41 PM)JanH Wrote: [ -> ]If you mean your trashy mink genes, it is a pity perhaps, but why are you not worried about those same nasty genes which are supposedly an even greater percentage of the genes in the Ragamuffin breed?)
This post is about Silver and Smoke and Shaded Ragdolls.BTW, since when is there a "Mink Gene"? LOL. your slipping
Jan, believe me I asked and actually demanded that the TICA Officials revoke the registration privileges of Mink Ragdolls since I never signed a litter registration slip as the proven Owner of the Sire that introduced the Sepia color Gene into
your Breed. I don't know how the registered Owner of Ft Knox (Ceaser) feels about his contribution of the Silver gene into Ragdolls.
I don't know either - and see no reason to care. ; ) Sounds like a breeder who did not like what happened to a cat they bred or the descendants of the cat. Of course, the only way to assure that is to keep the whole kittens at home.
So this is yet another full set of genes coming from Ragamuffins that are terrible according to you? Oh my. Why are you not spending your time having Ragamuffin breeders clean up their cats so they are not such a danger in a gene pool? Or do they ignore you as much as Ragdoll breeders do? ; )
Toxic Ragamuffins? If you say so. You would know better than I.
(There are MANY IRCA Ragdoll genes in Ragdolls, as would be expected based on the breed history.)
(03-02-2010 08:20 PM)JanH Wrote: [ -> ]Toxic Ragamuffins?
Of course the RagaMuffin genes are not toxic but in some Associations are simply not allowed to be used for Ragdoll Breeding Programs, that may prove to be toxic to some Ragdoll Breeders in some Associations.
(03-02-2010 08:20 PM)JanH Wrote: [ -> ]There are MANY IRCA Ragdoll genes in Ragdolls, as would be expected based on the breed history.)
Yes, and the IRCA cats were not considered Breeds, and the IRCA cats were and are the Foundation cats of the RagaMuffin Breed, not the Ragdoll Breed, that fact will not change.
So, Josephine is not a foundation cat for Ragamuffins?
Ann's cats, even after she created IRCA, and the cat fancy cats were freely interbred for many generations. It was not viewed as two breeds, but rather as breeders who were involved in getting the breed accepted in the cat fancy and breeders who stayed with Ann. Ann did not want any cats going to the cat fancy breeders. However, breeders would abandon her and come into the cat fancy group with their cats and/or place their cats with cat fancy breeders. Most of the Dayton's cats came to them in that way in the early years. So, yes, IRCA Ragdolls were accepted as cat fancy Ragdolls from the beginning at least until the late 70s or early 80s. By the end of the 80s, the groups had been bred so long to separate standards that cat fancy Ragdoll breeders did not want more IRCA cats brought in - and certainly not in large numbers - and they were starting to be treated as outcrosses (or rejected) by most Ragdoll breeders.
Of course, if one makes breeding decisions consistent with one association's concepts which are not consistent with another association's, then those cats and some of their descendants may not be able to be recognized in the latter association. This is not an issue unless one is active in the latter association. It is a reason that some breed to the least common denominator of all major associations, but some do not care if this or that other association will not accept their cats. For breeders active in the latter association, it matters in selecting cats. In the former association, it does not. Most of these issues go away after some set number of generations of breeding. And the weaker associations may be forced as a practical matter to come up with some figleaf solution
For example, ACFA found it was losing even more Ragdoll breeders because reds and lynx were not accepted in ACFA and TICA accepted them, per the Ragdoll breed group vote. The solution ACFA came upon, a particularly bad one, was to approve supposed future additional outcrossing to bring red and lynx in AGAIN (more outcrossing to do something already accomplished certainly not being in the interests of the breed) so that now older red and lynx lines can someday be registered by them on transfer from TICA on the pretense they are from more recent outcrosses rather than the older ones. All of this so that they do not have to admit they are accepting what to them at the time was an unacceptable outcross. Survival. ; )