I'm in a real dilema right now. Sassy's breeder has just told me she has a tortie bi and a tortie tabby kitten from the same parents as Sassy.
Both mum and dad have 1 HCM gene each and as you know Sassy died of HCM aged 14 months last June. Mum and dad were tested after Sassy died but the mating had already taken place. The rest of Sassy's siblings appear to be ok.
I really miss Sassy and I know no other cat will ever take her place BUT I can't help thinking that I would have one of her siblings, a part of her here again.
Jan, you know more about this than anyone I know, with medication (if needed) can the kitten/cat expect a 'normal' life expectancy if positive for HCM? If I do decide to have one of these kittens, I would have her tested asap and will have the result within 10 days.
I really miss Sassy every day and as I said no cat will ever take her place BUT etc. and I could lose any of my fur babies to a whole host of things, almost losing my son in the car accident has made me value what time we have with the ones we love and how precious all my loved ones are.
I really need your input here please.
Obviously one should never mate a postive Het (Hh) to a positive Het as the kittens will be 25% HH Positive Positive and 50% Het (Hh) and 25% hh negative. Each kitten should be tested via DNA. Results can take 2-4 weeks. A Positive Positive has a very great chance of developing HCM. Medications are expensive and may grant you more time. Age of onset and severity depends on a lot of things but is hard on the kitten/cat/ and owners. Just a terrible disease.
A cat with mutations may or may not get HCM. A heterozygous cat (with two copies of a mutation and kittens from this pair have a 25% chance of that - and a 25% chance of not getting any mutation) is at higher risk of developing HCM and having it progress more quickly. However, cats with only one copy can get HCM as early and be lost to HCM as quickly as a cat with two copies. I do not recall homozygous cats that have lived beyond 8 or so, although there may be some. There are SOME pos/hets who are in their late teens and still do not have HCM at all.
Medications do not slow the progression of the thickening of the heart wall. Meds can to some extent deal with the secondary symptoms of congestive heart failure and thrown blood clots. So, meds are important in treating a cat with HCM, but it is how quickly the heart wall thickens to the point that life cannot be sustained that will determine the prognosis - and that is variable from cat to cat and there is no med to slow it.
If you take a kitten who does have one or two copies of the mutation, then you will want to periodically scan the heart so that you will find out if HCM has developded as soon as it can be discovered. That will allow you to start meds earlier. Scans are quite expensive. Take those expenses into account in deciding how much to spend for the kitten.
I can understand your willingness to get a close relative even facing the potential dangers and early loss. However, do not assume you will be able to avoid them.
Thanks Jan,
I've been doing some reseach and know it's going to be an expensive haul including a good diet.
I know the breeder, have had a beautiful kitten from her who I loved so much and still miss. This mating took place before she was aware Sassy had died of HCM, the parents have been tested since and both are hetero. I've more or less decided that when I see a pic of the kitten, it will be a done deal. This kitten may well get HCM BUT with knowledge and forewarning I do believe I could give this kitten a better home/life than someone unknowledgeable. My existing cats are in no danger of 'catching' it so I'm kind of looking at this as if I was taking on a special needs kitten. I have a special needs son so unless Rob puts his foot down, I don't think I can turn my back on this kitten.
I guess I'm trying to justify what I know in my heart is the wrong thing to do but can't help myself. But someone will buy this kitten and I know it will be the last mating from this pair.
No. You are not wrong. And the odd part is that so many of the HCM cats seem exceptionally loving - and they do need good and caring homes. (I do not believe kittens with the mutation should be sold. They should be tested and, if they have the mutation, then they should be placed in selected homes without fees, so that those funds can be used for the extra expenses that testing - and treatment if that becomes necessary - will cost.)
Thanks Jan. I do so agree that these kittens shouldn't be sold. The breeder like many of us was unaware of HCM until something happened. Since losing Sassy and deciding to breed I have been doing more research due to Sassy's HCM. I had bought Belle last year with the option to breed as at the time I wasn't 100% sure it was what I wanted. I had her tested for the HCM gene before having her put on the breeding register and fortunatly she is clear for the gene otherwise I wouldn't breed from her. I've also had my bsh tested for various genetic conditions associated with the breed.
Having chatted with my mentor tonight I have decided not to accept the kitten. Next year I will hopefully have a litter of raggies and a litter of bsh. They will need 100% of my time as well as my family and other pets. Worrying wether or not this kitten is going to last the day won't do me or anyone else in my family any good and we do worry about our loved ones even when they are healthy. And if non of the kittens sell with the presant climate I could be keeping upto 12 kittens so expense is also a consideration although I was hoping to keep 2 back anyway.
Sassy was 1 in a million and no cat will ever compare to her or come close. My heart wants Sassy back but my head says she can't come back.
I've read online about various diets and medication for HCM cats, Sassy had the very best as do all my pets but it made no difference, the vet said she was so healthy inside, the only abnormality was the thickened heart muscle. I can't save every cat and sometimes I just have to say no, for my sake and that of my family. Thanks for the input it really is appreciated.
Diet has not been shown to be a factor - beyond general health being a plus for all creatures. This is understandable based on why HCM develops. The heart wall is constantly "renewed," with new cells being sent to replace cells that have become ineffective and are lost. With HCM, new cells are sent even though they are not needed because the genetic mutations falsely signal the need for replacement. This means the heart wall thickens from these extra cells and looses elasticity. This means the heart cannot function properly and, with enough thickening, the heart can no longer do its job at all. It is not promising to expect that diet will change this call for extra cells.
Jan, I really do find this interesting. I did a bit of research on HCM when I lost Sassy, tonight I researched HCM - treatment and found what I've posted. If diet does not have an effect, online research is a waste of time and a pack of lies. If you have some difinative information with links, I really do think the webmaster should make an area dedicated to this. It does affect the Ragdoll breed and it should be a matter of course for owner/breeder/potential owners to be aware of.
I assume there are many breeders who are not aware of HCM but by making it common knowledge through messageboard/websites we can hopefully breed this out of the Ragdolls and maybe other breeds.
I should know about my prefix next month and will be adding info about HCM and any other posible genetic condition which can affect the Ragdoll breed on my website. Wether it's a Ragdoll or moggie ALL breeders should have the welfare of the kittens foremost in their minds.
I am so glad you have responded to my post and hope many have read this.