Ragdoll Cat Forums

I know there are many out there that may refer to these forums as a guide to owning Rag Doll cats, and it is for this reason that I felt compelled to share our experiences here.

We have owned two other breeds of cat in the past, both Heinz 57 varieties and both from a rescue centre. We are therefore somewhat experienced at owning cats.

Having kept our little girl of five waiting until she was old enough to know how to behave with a young cat, we decided to look into a pure breed and invested plenty of time looking and researching for the right breeder and right choice of Rag Doll. This eventually came in the shape of 'Charlie Brown'

We acquired our Rag Doll from a reputable breeder here in the South West of England, and at first everything seemed to be fine, although there was occasional wet accidents around the house, we learned to watch him when he appeared to be making that all too familiar 'I'm going to pee' body language.

The problem has now developed into more of a constant vigil of watching his every move for me. We had guests stay overnight, they love cats, up on to the duvet he goes and.....you guessed it, one duvet in need of specialist cleaning. That was when he was young and we put it down to him being a kitten

Now, at just 12months old, this has become a major issue in the house.

In addition to his random but very successful wetting, we have to endure his desire to get into rooms, rooms that are, of course, closed up because we do not wish for him to be tempted into spreading his scent onto new-found territories. But Charlie has a way of making his point by tearing at the carpet at the bottom of the closed doors. A classic catch 22. You let him in he urinates where he sees fit, you close him out he destroys the carpet, which, by the way is only nine months old.

He also tears at the carpet to get out. Breeders here in the UK say they are house cats and must not be let out. Oh really? It is nigh-on impossible to keep our Rag Doll in. We conceded this point on the basis of carpet preservation and I fitted a cat flap so that he could go and come as he pleases. We live in a small town, away from a road and hoped that this concession of freedom may improve his desire not to soil indoors as he may actually learn to do it outside. Dream on.

We have (had) two lovely free-roaming guinea pigs who live in the confines of our garden. For some time I had noticed his 'interest' in them but was of the opinion they were too large for a not-fully-grown Rag Doll. Wrong again. Thanks to his irresistible predator urges he despatched and delivered the body of one of our guinea pigs to our back door. A place that our guinea pigs cannot reach by themselves due to the area being at the top of steep steps. The four puncture holes just behind the animals head were enough confirmation of who was responsible.

But worse than that, he managed to fall out of a tree one night breaking his rear upper leg in three places. This required major veterinary intervention, costing over £2500 (some $3500?) He has now spent the last nine weeks in a cage in our house recuperating, but going steadily insane. He has finally just had the highly specialised external fixators (Giant safety-pin style stainless steel supports and pins) removed and can now move about the house and not need to be confined to his cage.

We thought that this whole sorry episode may have calmed him down a little, but alas no.

We are now back to him tearing at doors to get out, regularly wailing at the outside doors and just last night, as we were getting into bed we find that for one moment during the day, just one tiny moment we must have had a slight lapse of attention and left our main bedroom door open. Thanks Charlie, I slept on the sofa and my partner used a sleeping bag after we had stripped the bed. I will now be investing in a second duvet for replacement manoeuvres in the future.

Before everyone hits me with their advice on things like "you had new carpet he was stressed and urinated....because they have to mark their territory" or "he senses an atmosphere because you watch him constantly" or "Try scent removing sprays" etc. etc. Let me share what our breeder suggested recently. It was commented on how antisocial urinating like that must be, so "why don't you buy him a cage?" Great. If I wanted to start a cat zoo I would have purchased a small holding farm or similar.

I find owning such an animal a constant stress, cats are great predators, they have an enormous capacity for patience, one mistake and they are in doing whatever it is they wish to do.

Having to endlessly keep a vigil with constant closures of doors around the house, checking a young daughter in case she forgets, fixing double-sided sticky tape across doorways in the vain hope that it may deter him from tearing at the carpet, is nothing less than a living hell, and I estimate I have some 12 - 15 years of this to look forward to.

There is no way I would entertain breaking my little girls heart and re-homing him and there lies the main conundrum. This cat runs my life.
It is my firm belief that whilst there are clearly loving and thoroughly well-loved Rag Dolls out there, the breed has been so refined that what I believe I witness here are the possible results of over-breeding, methods that could have intensified basic behavioural tendencies.

It must be stated that Charlie is very loved in our house generally, but my main reason for writing here is to really make potential owners aware that owing a Rag Doll isn't necessarily the Disney movie sometimes suggested. They are sometimes not the perfect house cat. They can and do attack and bite and scratch quite badly and indiscriminately sometimes. They think nothing of leaping on to your face whilst you are asleep and scratching, I have a severely cut ear to prove it right now.

These are all traits that I have never witnessed with cats I have lived with before. Yes the odd accident whilst young and before being properly house trained, but not what I see with our beloved example.

I am sorry if my findings may not meet with the approval of certain quarters, who appear to dote in an almost religious way on this breed. But once again, if you are considering owning a Rag Doll, and they are fabulously cute and do have some lovely moments. Be very very aware of the whole story that is likely to unfold.

Sincerely.

Rob.

It's too bad you didn't join this forum earlier and ask for assistance in helping to solve problems. For example - the urination is often a sign of an untreated Urinary Tract Infection. Just ask our members naillady19 who put up with inappropriate toileting for a year with a vet telling her it wasn't a UTI until she found one that treated for it anyway and sure enough that stopped. Did you ever treat for a UTI? If so, for how long? Shylo I think was treated for 4 weeks. Here's an excerpt from one of her posts:

"She has been great. No going in the house. I have someone coming next week to clean the rugs with a pet sanitizer. I hope that will get rid of the urine smell... The house is so much nicer with her not peeing all over the house.We are all feeling less stressed out. She has been such a good girl and it took a year of peeing all over but I think we got it straightened out and I`m so glad I didn`t give up on her.Love her so very much. I also love you all for all the help and support you have shown me thru this difficult time."

Ragdoll cats are very attached to humans and desire to be with them. Were you or someone else on the other side of the closed door? Did you try doublesided tape at the bottom of the door to discourage tearing the carpet? Of course, fix the urination problem and you won't have to close doors.

Cats are cats and chase things that you pull on the floor in front of them, what made you think it wouldn't attack a guinea pig, and on top of that, why was a ragdoll cat outside unsupervised? They should never be outdoors unsupervised, especially in the presence of an animal such as a guinea pic or rabbit, or any other type of prey -- they are a CAT foremost.

Do you trim your cat's nails and provide appropriate scratching surfaces both vertical and horizonal -- some like to stretch/scratch one way, and some the other. They can't scratch you severely if you keep their nails trimmed, and can be taught that it's inappropriate to do so with care.

Ragdolls are cats, and as such will have normal "cat" problems from time to time, but most of them can be overcome....

Every cat is a cat and can have the health and behavioral issues of other cats. Very few urination problems are not correctable and most of them are either medical problems or triggered by things in the home, such as overmarking old scents, using high loft items like duvets, using items that outgass like rubbers or plastics.

Breeders have NOT reported increasing incidences of issues, so "overbreeding" is not a part of your experience, although sometimes "underbreeding" (or unfortunate breeding decisions) can be the source of temperament problems.

Sorry you are going through this and I know you did not want ideas. However, the best source of links on ideas of things to try (including the attraction for urination of items with down and duvets and quilts), check Tallyville (http://tallyville.com/litterboxhelp.html)

Although drugs are not where one starts, your experiences are so extreme and seem to have gone on for so long as to have become habits that you may want to know that the most effective behavior modification drug for cats is Prozac and you may want to ask your vet about it. It is never too late to correct some of this behavior. (I do not think you can assure that any cat will not hunt and kill small rodents, particularly outside - and that includes Ragdolls. Ragdolls are NOT indoor only cats because they cannot hunt if they get outside. It is to protect them from predators, illness and theft.)

I had a cat with a urination issue that went on for over 4 years. None of the interventions worked including the Prosac but the Prosac was helpful to give to my spouse who became unbearable to deal with over this issue.
She was my favorite ever and I felt like such a failure. Cats are cats and marking territory is a cat behavior. I think mine also made a game of it as well. Game over. I had her rehomed and grieved as though I had experienced a death of a loved one.
Since then I've adopted the two ragdolls and am so grateful that they are litterbox faithful. I can tolerate any other cat behavior but chronic marking of territory in my home.
Good luck with Charlie Brown. You have my sympathy. I hope that you find a solution so that you don't have to go through the grief that I did.

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with your first Raggie. I must also point out that introducing any new animal to your existing animals must be supervised and done carefully if they are to get along. My cats share a run with rabbits and a guinea pig. The only problem I've had is the cats shoving them out of the hutch cos they like to get in there and snuggle in the straw.

The problems your experiencing do sound extreme But it's not too late to try and salvage the situation, many older cats who have been re-homed with behaviour problems have been successfully helped and re-habilitated.
If you want the help we are here, just don't write off your Raggie until you've spoken with people who have gone through a similar experience.

Jan

TeresaK Wrote:It's too bad you didn't join this forum earlier and ask for assistance in helping to solve problems. For example - the urination is often a sign of an untreated Urinary Tract Infection. Just ask our members naillady19 who put up with inappropriate toileting for a year with a vet telling her it wasn't a UTI until she found one that treated for it anyway and sure enough that stopped. Did you ever treat for a UTI? If so, for how long? Shylo I think was treated for 4 weeks. Here's an excerpt from one of her posts:

"She has been great. No going in the house. I have someone coming next week to clean the rugs with a pet sanitizer. I hope that will get rid of the urine smell... The house is so much nicer with her not peeing all over the house.We are all feeling less stressed out. She has been such a good girl and it took a year of peeing all over but I think we got it straightened out and I`m so glad I didn`t give up on her.Love her so very much. I also love you all for all the help and support you have shown me thru this difficult time." No definitely no UTI, especially after major vet intervention from the broken leg incident, he's still on broad base anti infection antibiotics at the moment.

Ragdoll cats are very attached to humans and desire to be with them. Were you or someone else on the other side of the closed door? Did you try doublesided tape at the bottom of the door to discourage tearing the carpet? Of course, fix the urination problem and you won't have to close doors.We can be in the open part of the house and Charlie will sculk off and if he finds an open bedroom door he can be onto the duvet. Problem is not every time, you think he's settled and become toilet trained and then, after a lapse of attention there we go again, do-it-on-the-duvet time. That's what I mean by a stressful existence, you can never totally relax.

Cats are cats and chase things that you pull on the floor in front of them, what made you think it wouldn't attack a guinea pig, and on top of that, why was a ragdoll cat outside unsupervised? They should never be outdoors unsupervised, especially in the presence of an animal such as a guinea pic or rabbit, or any other type of prey -- they are a CAT foremost.Sorry I don't subscribe to this school of thought. It could easily be argued that keeping them in is also unfair, unnatural or even cruel. I know of another Rag Doll owner in our town and I discussed it at length before we ever let Charlie out and he said it's virtually impossible keeping them in all the time. So let's define prey, small rodents yes, and other small birds and creatures, slow worms are a favourite here. How about a small dog or a new born baby even? You cannot be totally attentive 100% of the time whether the cat is indoors or out. I have never seen any domestic cat that I have been brought up with from an early age take on prey larger than a small bird or small rodent. This is like a ferule instinct emerging.

Do you trim your cat's nails and provide appropriate scratching surfaces both vertical and horizonal -- some like to stretch/scratch one way, and some the other. They can't scratch you severely if you keep their nails trimmed, and can be taught that it's inappropriate to do so with care.We have two major rope scratching poles, plus safe hanging toys from them too, one upstairs one down, so that he is never far from somewhere to scratch. Same with his litter trays, two, just in case he actually fancies using one it isn't far away. His nails have been cut back carefully, although I absolutely do not subscribe to claw pulling, I consider that barbaric. We also never hit him either, we use tone of voice, and a water spray.
Ragdolls are cats, and as such will have normal "cat" problems from time to time, but most of them can be overcome....

We have no choice but to keep trying. He hasn't gone out since his accident, and I hoped that would break the mould of his desire to go out, but it hasn't. I would be very happy to keep him in the whole time IF HE WAS HAPPY, but there are limits and I believe this whole issue of permanently keeping them in to be highly debateable and seems to be strongest from breeders suggesting they are defenceless, unable to look after themselves etc. Well that is certainly not the case for us, quite the opposite in fact. Also, I failed to add, earlier, he was neutered at 5 months as per our breeders instructions when we collected him.

I'm sorry to hear you've had so many problems with your raggie. I did the same as you and purposely chose to buy a pure bred so it would be less of a mystery parcel and I just love the look and nature of ragdolls.

I've been blessed and have a raggie with all the wonderful raggie traits. He has never urinated outside of his litter box. Is very affectionate. Regularly flops in front of you...well anywhere. He doesn't try to go outside. Sure he has his play times where he can gently bite and scratch but he's very good when you tell him not to do something. He was also very easy to train to leave me alone when the lights are out at night.

Just want to let you know that sometimes owners gush on here about their ragdolls because they are so wonderful and we honestly don't have the same problems you've had.

Again, I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having.

Jaz (and Murphy)

Can I say many thanks to all the posts that have appeared here, it is reassuring to hear other positive experiences with Rag Dolls, because I want to reiterate that I want this to work-out, I truly don't want to live with such on-going problems, especially the random urinating part because I am finding it so very hard to deal with to the point of it becoming almost a rift between us all in the house. My little girl was breaking her heart as I am trying to put my point across to my partner this evening, convinced that she is going to wake-up to find her beloved Charlie Brown gone, this of course will not happen by my doing and we will persevere.

I apologise if I have over-painted the negative side, and chose to only allude to the positive side in brief in my original post. Of course there are many times when he's the best.

Jan H I am most interested in any ideas that may come forward, it's just that we have tried so many things, from enzyme sprays, to deterrent sprays, to sticky tape, to all sorts frankly. I am not sure he needs Prozac really, I think extra vigilance on the urinating front, and I have read they really don't fully mature for some time, and maybe this is all teenage behaviour? It definitely seem to be rebellious that's for sure. This is why we were stunned when he killed our guinea pig at around nine months old, he was still a kitten!

When I read somewhere that Rag Dolls originated from some happy accident in California from wild cats crossing with domestic cats (check the accuracy here!) I got to thinking about some ferule tendency that seems to manifest itself within our Rag Doll. Sometimes witnessing this behaviour, it's hard to imagine he isn't totally wild and straight off the streets sometimes.

I do read the forums, here and elsewhere, and do try to seek solutions, because we really want our time with Charlie Brown to be enjoyable and memorable.......for mostly the right reasons!

Thanks for all of your posts once again.

Sincerely, Rob.

Ragdolls come from random bred neighborhood cats. Not from wild cats.

You mention enzymatic sprays. The first challenge of litterbox problems after medical issues are dealt with (since that is the most common cause) is to completely clean all stained areas. One can use a true black light to find them. Enzymatic cleaners have to slowly dry to allow the enzymes to reach and dissolve the stain. A cat can smell the smallest trace left behind. So, use bottled enzymatic cleaners from a pet supply store and carefully follow the instructions, particularly on assuring slow drying.

You mention periods of improvement followed by relapses. This does happen and sometimes one can start a retraining cycle before the behavior repeats.

Look for reasons the cat is rejecting the litterbox. Factors are number of boxes, type of litter, thickness of litter, type of box, placement of box, cleanliness of box. A single cat should have at least two boxes. Always have available whatever litter was learned on. Try new litters by ADDING it in a new box. Do not try too many things too fast. Give them a chance to work. Try Cat Attract litter. Try an empty box. Try an automatic box to assure it is always scooped. Try using a small amount of litter and dumping it with each use. Try a larger amount of litter to make it thicker under food and more diggable. Pay attention to what is happening when the behavior happens and when it does not - keep notes even. Put away targets (seemingly like some bedding, including duvets). If beds are a target, then prepare them for the possibility. Use all bleachable bedding (white cotton), including blankets and double mattress pads to avoid staining of the mattress itself. Have two sets, so that one can be put on while the other is being cleaned. Put away bedding that attracts the behavior - high loft, down, etc. Try covered boxes. Try a different box location - more or less private.

Do not assume the cat is "paying you back" or the like. The job is to identify the triggers to the behavior you do not want and to remove them. Stress is a major source of such behavior - and of illness. Do not punish and try to keep the stress you will feel away from the cat. The only reaction with the cat other than trying alternatives is when in the act. Then, take him to the litterbox. Other negative reactions will not be understood and may cause him to think he must sneak away from people to eliminate, which is likely to push him away from the box.

In terms of illness, treat it as a UTI, but also consider that the source may be a GI system problem as well. That is why a long course of meds to treat each are appropriate, even if no symptoms are found.

Retraining can be by putting him in a smaller space (bathroom) with litter, toys, bedding, food and water that induces him to use the box consistently. It is good if another cat can keep him company and he can be let out after he uses the box and to be held and played with. One wants to extend the period of appropriate use to avoid misuse being a habit.

Tallyville links have many ideas.

Hi Rob,

I'm sorry to see you've had problems with Charlie Brown. I have friends who went through nearly the exact same problem, except that they had a moggie named Chester and he was two years old. Although they provided a loving home to Chester and their young daughter was particularly attached to him, he peed on the beds fairly regularly, to the point they had to shut the bedroom doors and life at home became very tense. Chester also lashed out when people approached him. It was a very tough decision for my friends, especially because their daughter was so attached, but they realized that Chester would be better off (and so would they) if he found a different home. The learned of an older lady in their neighborhood, on her own and a cat lover. They approached her with their dilemma and she took in Chester. He's been a completely different cat every since. As for their daughter, it wasn't a case of "Chester is gone" overnight, but rather explaining to her over a matter of weeks that they needed to show how much they loved Chester and let him go to a different home. Their daughter was sad, but they worked at making her feel she was part of the decision. She can also visit Chester.

Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for our pets is to realize our homes may not be the best for them. I wish you the best with Charlie Brown, but from an objective perspective, he would likely do better in a different home.

Coral