Ragdoll Cat Forums

Hi Rob, a fellow UK ragdoll owner here!

I am so sorry to learn of your problems with Charlie Brown and whilst I do think Coral's point of view of another home, may be worth considering, I also very much respect your point of view, that you intend to see this through and make it work and indeed numerous individuals on this forum, in the time I have been a part of it, have been blasted for their "giving up" on their ragdolls when they have issues, much less challenging than you are facing.

Firstly; I would advise that if your decision is to stick with Charlie whatever, that you break the problems down, prioritising them, in terms of the most pressing and post individual posts on here, to seek advice (not withstanding of course that some problems, are overlapping). I find that the international aspect of this forum, often brings advice from a different angle, than we perhaps consider things here. You will at times, get conflicting advice, but at least you have things to try and can make your own choices. The help and experience on tap here, is priceless. I do feel that your plight at the moment must seem overwhelming and that your sanity would start to benefit immediately if there were small signs of progress, at least in one aspect. In addition I feel it is unrealistic to expect instant progress in all aspects; you have a good deal of change to bring about.

With regard to the indoor/outdoor issue, this is always a contraversial one, but I can tell you that I have successfully, since May, got my 2 in the situation of being able to go out, not in a run, not on leads (although that was part of the process in getting them this far), so they are free to roam in our garden. That said our garden is secure and one of us is always supervising them. I am sure to be shouted down as many people would disapprove of this and it is true that; Ragdolls are less able to defend themselves through being too trusting, are likely to be stolen or simply fall pray to the kind of accidents that claim claims lives whether pedigree or moggy.
What I will say is that, the benefit in doing this for us has been a huge change in the behaviour of our male (I adopted a Brother and Sister at 2 years of age, one year ago), who was displaying symptons of frustration. My cats have had the best summer and I have seen such a change in Billy and his whole demeanour, BUT it has taken much work and dare I say training.....because they sure know the routines now.......but I would do it all again, to get to where we are. What I must add to calm those about to shout me down, my 2 will never be alllowed free roam, to go outside of the garden or outside when we are not there, but we have found some middle ground. One interesting point is that at 2 1/2, I had no expectation that their litter tray habbits would change and fully expected them to return from the garden to use their tray which we always kept available. It has been quite a revelation to me that they choose to poo in the garden whenever they can. We have dug a special area for them, and despite the fact that they are indoors for much of the day, choose to poo in the garden, just using their tray for occasional wees.............Sorry about the detail, but I would go as far to say I have only cleaned one poo out in the last 3 months. We did take much trouble with the toilet area we prepared for them and would go as far to say, they love their outdoor loo!!

If your outdoor situation would allow, I would throughly recommend that you try the process we have been through; you have nothing to lose and I too can say, that I knew Billy wanted (I would go as far to say "needed") to go out. I am afraid I do have to lay blame with you for the guinea pig, that in no way was Charlies fault and was I hate to say it, through gross naivety on your part, my Ragdolls are definitely not as "streetwise" as a tomcat that has roamed it's life outside..................my two, make to chase the woodpigeons flying over our garden, in the sky, with of course no chance of catching them, but that does not mean that I would put it past them to stalk and catch anything on their patch, as the others have said they are cats after all. Any moves to get Charlie outside, must be preceeded by steps to protect your reamining guinea pig.

I would be happy to pass on our experience, of the process to get our cats going outside not wandering further, if it would help, it has taken effort on our part, but it sounds as though you would be willing to work towards improvement.......just drop me a pm if I can help.

Finally; having started to take an interest in rehoming older cats and the rehabilitation involved; I have come to realise that, most behavioural issues in cats, can be resolved with the right knowledge/ experience. There are a series of books here by a lady called Vicky Hall that are excellent and actually just very interesting to read, that help you to understand how your cat "ticks". There is also the option of cat behavioural specialists like Vicky Hall and other less high profile ones, that you can engage to help you work with Charlie, especially the toileting issues, but my own advice is to at least read Vicky Halls books first, they will give you great hope, teach you much about Charlie and I would expect, help you to work towards bringing about a whole different relationship. The most positive thing I read in your posts is your intention to work this through, not least of all to avoid breaking your daughter's heart. I believe there is much you can do to make all of your lives, including Charlie's much more pleasant and I wish you much luck......I will watch this space with interest!

Sue

Unless the garden has a roof, you cannot have a cat securely there - and cannot get to them if they decide to get out. It is true that most Ragdolls are not big on jumping, but they can jump very high when they are interested enough - as we have discovered. You also cannot secure against animals getting in, including cats like Siamese who are extremely athletic jumpers. However, for us not using even outdoor secure enclosures is to avoid our experience of a cat who, with a taste for the outdoors as a kitten, was a lifelong - and dangerously successful - escape risk. (Of course, the balance of considerations can shift if one is combatting some intolerable other behavior.)

I have no guarantees of those things it's true, but minimise the risk with supervision, but in the same way, a cat that chooses can get its paw stuck through run wire if it is determined, you cannot be there every second, as you cannot with children; but you can take every sensible precaution and as in Rob's case and mine, I guess, make choices weighed up against the problems inherant in not doing it.

Sue - great idea about Vicky Halls' books. I have all three and find them very insightful.

Rob - her web site is: http://www.vickyhalls.net/

Hi Coral, SueK and JanH thanks a million for your advice, I will definitely be checking out Vicky Hall's books.

I appreciate the guinea pig incident was down to us, we just never imagined that Charlie, who at nine months at the time wasn't that much bigger then the guinea pigs. Sad, but a cruel lesson learned.

Charlie is without doubt a bit crazy when it comes to jumping from place to place. In the house I have witnessed him leap from the Sofa straight on to the dining table, which is an absolute no no. For this we use the water spray to scold him, with tone of voice and a firm NO Charlie!!

We have a balcony at home, we thought this was the perfect compromise to letting him have a sniff of the great outdoors. But of course Charlie being Charlie this was not enough. He managed to position himself between the already narrow rails and -you guessed it - leap to the garden below.

We never imagined he would risk a leap down from such a height, but it wasn't until I went to go out of the back door and there he was, waiting to come into the house.

This little episode was before his accident and now I would hope that he wouldn't dare try anything like that now, but we don't chance to luck he is watched closely when out on the balcony now. Although if his expression is anything to go by he doesn't like being confined to the relative safety of our balcony and gives me a dirty look as if to say "It's just a matter of time Dad, you can't keep me from that exciting world full of smells and exploration, just you see!"

As I said in my earlier post here, I feel it is really necessary to highlight to potential new owners that Rag Doll's are not your ordinary standard moggie. They have very differing needs, and can definitely be extremely 'spirited' with all of the unexpected things mentioned here and elsewhere, that may well surprise or even shock a novice to these otherwise loving and highly social animals. Hopefully, if a potential new owner reads this and really doesn't think that these little characteristics are for them, then it may save a raggie from an unhappy existence in a home not really suited to it.

I sincerely do appreciate the time taken to make all the invaluable suggestions, and will keep a close eye on this forum as a great source of information.

I shall also be reporting any breakthroughs with Charlie Brown!

Sincerely, Rob.

I don't have advice but I feel for you and I do hope you will be able to find the solution