In theory, should all Ragdolls from reputable breeders be able to trace back to Ann Baker's Josephine? It's lovely to think that our kitties -- from the States to Australia and everywhere in between -- have a common relative in the not-too-distant past. (my other love, persians, certainly can't say that!)
Yes but not always on both sides of the parentage as outcrosses are bred in for the newer colours eg choc, lilac, red, cream & tortie.
Although saying that there is some lilacs and chocs that date back to Josephine on both sides of the parentage, very rare but getting more common.
Cats dating back to Josephine on both sides with no outcrosses are called 100% traditional lined cats. Our Oscar was a 9th generation Josephine cat with 100% traditional lines. Jake & Jaz both have outcross in them with jaz being a lilac and jake a blue carrying choc. Although they have a large amount of traditional lineage.
Also, we cant exactly say everyone has that in common on here as a lot of members have moggies that are supposably 'ragdolls' or ragdolls without papers, meaning most likely look alike ragdolls.
With an outcross, one "side" of the pedigree does not trace to Josephine ONLY for the kittens of the outcross itself. As the generations after the outcross pass with breeding to non-outcrossed breed members, the 50% that does not trace to Josephine drops by half every generation and a progressively smaller percentage of the pedigree does not trace back to Josephine. After three generations, when the kittens get SBT status in TICA, the percentage has already dropped to 6.25% and the next generation will drop to 3.125%
True, except if those breedings are to other cats with outcrossings somewhere in their ancestry in which case the percentages would be larger. But it would still be decreasing. That is, unless the breeding in every generation is to a cat with the same (or higher) percentage of outcrossed ancestry as the line in question, but I assume that is avoided by breeders... is this assumption correct Jan?
wow i never knew this! Thanks for the info!
WinstonsandOlliesMom Wrote:True, except if those breedings are to other cats with outcrossings somewhere in their ancestry in which case the percentages would be larger. But it would still be decreasing. That is, unless the breeding in every generation is to a cat with the same (or higher) percentage of outcrossed ancestry as the line in question, but I assume that is avoided by breeders... is this assumption correct Jan?
I had not seen your question.
Yes, this can happen for example when a particular Ragdoll has lynx and red in her pedigree. She will show an outcross to accomplish the introduction of lynx and another to bring in red.
One would tend to avoid mixing outcrosses to some degree because the entire effort with an outcross is to breed back to full Ragdoll type after the outcross by carefully selecting mates and kittens to breed in each subsequent generation. One wants the characteristic, say lynx, and not the other ones of the outcross cat, so you have to breed any of those out of future Ragdoll generations.
if they are the true raggie then they should trace back to josephine. outcrosses are not a ragdoll, but probably another breed of cat
By definition in cat breeding (contrary to dog breeding), an outcross is outside the breed.
jenny armour Wrote:if they are the true raggie then they should trace back to josephine. outcrosses are not a ragdoll, but probably another breed of cat
Outcrosses ARE allowed, if accepted by your governing council. Most of our 'pure' ragdolls have outcross in them, and they are still classified as ragdolls. I think once your down 4 generations you are considered a full ragdoll again. But this is only a practice that experienced breeders are allowed to do and permission is a must. Its quite different to BYB crosses.
If you cross a lilac with a lilac, the type usually isnt as good as if you mate a seal to a lilac because of that you have the outcross in both sides of the line. Sure the seal might have the outcross too (if she has choc behind her) but generally people should want to breed the traditional old lines to the new ones to improve the new ones.